Media gallery update
/ by Matt
Just a little update while preparing some interesting new posts here, we’ve got some more photos of some of the activities over the last few weeks in the media gallery, including the short Blender tutorial workshop we gave to students from the Netherlands Film Institute.
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Man, those are some freakin huge montiors. This is just my opnion, but I would like to see more shots of the country (perhaps on a separate site?), I love looking at pics of other countries.
So cool, I just wished I was there, hehe :) .
Yea! dual screen for everyone.
If you don’t have that, ask it for christmas!!!
Letter to Santa Claus:
Dear Santa, you know I have been a good boy this year, I even helped my neighbour carry out her garbage. Now with regards to my request for this year, if you are unable to get me that “new” 24″ Widescreen TFT I asked you for Christmas, don’t worry, I know a place in Amsterdam with some “used” ones that are almost as new …. LOL
I tried those widescreen TFT’s at the Conference and drolled a bit, there is so much space to use, I really miss not having one of those. But, we can’t have everything can we ? Will have to stick to my 19″ CRT, its not that bad, it was worse when I only had a 14″ …
Dear Santa,
I am insecure. I need large 30″ Apple screens (2 of them please) to compensate. As well, I’ll need a quad g5 apple to go with them. Maybe two with a kvm switch if you’re feeling cool.
Thanks.
:P
Dear Santa,
The new monitor you gave me is KILLING MY EYES!!! /wp-content/themes/orange/images/blog/media/bassam_thinking.jpg
quote: Man, those are some freakin huge montiors.
NO WAY, thats a freakin huge TABLET!!
This pic was taken right before Ton lost a day’s work when his laptop fell out the window =P
Naw, that’s right before Ton lost a Week’s worth of Prospective Work when HE fell out of the Window.
No, seriously guys, those Monitors are Un-holy. I can only guess what you’re doing with them…
i plan to replace my crts soon… since you got a bunch of tfts for the studio… how many dead pixels did you get on average on all those monitors? or are dead pixels a problem of the past? :)
[Quote: NO WAY, thats a freakin huge TABLET!!]
I got one like that at home, and it’s realy good. The only problem is that I never use it, because lack of space. I can’t use the tablet, mouse and keyboard at the same time :P
well tablet is like mine… i too haven’t space but i put that on my knees when painting with gimp!!
For all those TFT zealots in this thread, be informed that you are only victims of marketing machinery trying to make more money with worse products: (paste follows)
TFTs ROCK!
– TFTs cost at least twice as much as a similar CRT with a similarly sized screen
– The colors, if not wrong from the beginning, look totally different depending on the viewing angle (and NO, this is NOT old, it is STILL like this on a VERY recent product i have HERE.)
– Brightness and especially contrast lack extremely compared to a CRT. Go into a dark room, place a TFT next to a (properly calibrated) CRT, and display the same, totally black picture on both of them, with a white spot in the middle.
The CRT will show a *completely black* (invisible) screen with a blindingly white dot, the TFT will show a mid-grey screen with a usually-white dot. Unusable for graphics work.
– TFTs are *blurry* at any resolution *except* their physical resolution. Actually, much more blurry than an old CRT.
– TFTs have uncorrectable pixel errors, which are “normal” according to manufacturers. Customers have to accept that up to 5 (as an example) random pixels are broken.
– TFTs have bad reaction times. Movement looks ‘blurry’. Especially appearent in things like games.
– TFTs have RF noise problems, causing much more interference than a similar CRT, even though a CRT has high-voltage transformers and all other peculiar things in it
Hi Alexander.
No, we’re not victims of marketing hype, maybe you just haven’t seen a decent LCD monitor :)
– There are next to no CRTs with > 22inch screens, and little or very few with wide screens. We are using 23″ and 24″ widescreens here.
– As least the Apple cinema display I’m using right now has extremely little shift based on viewing angle. I need to be almost side on to the monitor for it to make a difference. Even perching over people’s shoulders there isn’t a problem. The Apple ones here (and I think the others’ Samsung ones too) are also extremely bright, with about double the brightness and contrast range of the crappy 19″ dell ones sitting next to them.
The colour correction aspect isn’t a problem either if they’re calibrated properly. I worked at the Sydney office of Landor for a while, a rather large multinational design agency, and the entire finished art section used properly calibrated Apple Cinema displays for their pre-press work.
We haven’t really gotten around to calibrating ours consistently across the room yet, will worry about it when we get to rendering.
– Of course they’re blurry at a non-native resolution. We don’t need to change resolutions at all, this is a non-issue.
– There is no reaction time problem on the cinema displays. There’s a little bit of it on the Samsungs but not really that noticeable. We’re not playing games on these, anyway ;)
– And there’s no issue with noise here either. They’re all being driven digitally via DVI which is far crisper than any CRT I’ve seen.
cheers
Hi,
I thank you so much for all the replies you gave me on “a Get A Haircut!” blog, its overwhelming to see such ALIVE blog.
If I may ask can I have
– the E-mail of Mr. Ton Roosendaal
– and possibly your e-mail Lee
My e-mail is [email protected]
Regards,
Moustady
Hi Matt!
Contrast, unfortunately, is not only a matter of ‘how bright can it get’, but particularly of ‘how dark can it get’. Did you try turning off *all* the lights in the room, and then displaying – say – a black terminal screen or an otherwise completely black image?
Is it *really* black (i.e., the TFT is completely invisible?), or is it dark-grey, like my TFT?
Then, saying that only being able to operate at one single resolution is a “non-issue” goes a bit far – it probably is a non -issue in *your* specific case :)
Concerning the RF noise: I meant the RF noise *radiated* from the TFT displays into *other* devices nearby, *not* noise on the screen.
As soon as I turn on my TFT in the studio, i get a pretty harsh beeping in all channels, caused by demodulation of the appearently very strong high frequency noise the TFT’s electronics generate.
Alexander Ewering
well than it realy wonders me why for example the TFTs we make have a better gamut than the CRTs?
for each argument i could provide you a disadvantage of CRT.
pixel error = convergence error
just a thought from a colormanagement specialist ;)
claas
Now look. I’m using 2 CRT with the Trinitron technology here(one of the best for graphic it seem).
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8538/dualscreen0dj.jpg
TFT or not. It’s very cool to get a bargain of 70$ CAN for a dualscreen setup. ^_^
Wow, this has turned into a strange, yet meaningless CRT vs TFT debate.
I’ve got one.. I was able to cut my desk in half when I switced to TFT, and was able to use the extra space to install a disco ball and rotisary bar 8)
Also, when I go to take my system down to move it I no longer have to throw my back out getting my monitor into the car. Besides, my cat likes it better.
LOL! Matt refers to the Media Gallery…and guess
what all the guests talk about? OMFG – Look 24″ ! and
it’s TFT! Woah! Gizza gozza! me gotta hava itta…yeah gizza!
…just deliver enough papers, pizza and collect bottles you
little snotnosed 12 year olds…and you’ll have all the TFT screens you can afford…he he..
I am kidding of course. TFT screens for the people,
and yes… TFT technology has come a long way since yesteryear.
CRT was great – now it’s outta date…TFT is the thing this year (err…wasn’t that a song about radio & tv way back in time?)
TFT facts:
– Today the fastest TFT’s are 2 ms!
– TFT’s in the more expensive lineup are more color-correct
due to self-calibrating color-temperature measurement technology built into the screens. So does expensive CRT’s have as well!
– TFT’s are NOT blurry, unless we’re talking about the cheapo 200 dollar 19 inchers you buy from taekwondoland-copyware-kong-hung with the “all-in-one 800×600 to 1920-1600 multi-synch-chip converter to DVI crap” built in with bipolar interpolation.. hehe..guess I lost a few out there now.
– TFT are flat and nice…and thus give even-FOCUS all over the screen, pixels are supersharp and you can notice even the smallest compression error in an image – try that with a “naturally-antialiased-by-analogue-cathode-rays” ligth intensity tubes…(CRT’s) Sure…it makes your pictures look nicer than they actually are..
– TFT saves you money! Imagine your 300-600 watt power-sucking picture tube CRT sucking away your money, ok…thats perhaps not a problem if your PARENTS are paying for it, but thats a lot of money each year…we’re talking hundreds of dollars (if you’re not in the states where power is CHEEEAP…)
TFT uses around 11-30 watts…now that’s good for mother nature AND your wallet.
– TFT saves your vision. Did you know that you’re actually staring into gamma rays when you’re enjoying your 80’tech CRT screen with “all natural analogue colors”? ;) Yeah.. there’s a reason pregnant ladies are recommended to stay away from heavy TV-viewing & computer usage… That tube isn’t all safe, but not that bad either…but I’d prefer the Cold-Cathode backlight of a TFT screen, cleaner white too, and no flickering…that saves you a headache as well.
I could go on forever and forever, and probably not convince the most hardcore CRT fans out there…but then again…their loss..not mine ;)
Hm….that’s all that I could talk about too….TFT’s!
You know I think it would help a bit if members of the team would publish some more progress reports or opinions about the actual project – doesn’t have to be much- and perhaps Ton could say something too about how it is working out – meeting expectations, quality, length, difficulties in coding, managing production, possibility of another project next year… etc.
I know they are all very busy but a few more details would involve the community more and maybe stimulate conversation.
To put some more oil on this fire :)
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20051028/index.html
Those seem to be eliminating a lot of current disadvantages of TFTs that a important in graphical heavy working environments.
Maybe not video environments yet, because this technology seem to still have struggles with switching times.
However… as usual a well balanced mixture seems the best way. Use what fits best for each task. Simple, yet often nough not possible solution. ;)
Hello Mr. J00o0oOOngle,
first of all, daddy, I do earn money, so my parents don’t pay for the electricity bill, thanks.
> – Today the fastest TFT’s are 2 ms!
Yes, so? “Fastest” probably meaning “costing 10 times as much as the same CRT, not “just” 4 times”. I can’t afford that.
And even then. 50 fps is not all that impressive. The “fastest” CRTs do 1 ms and lower.
> – TFT’s in the more expensive lineup are more color-correct
due to self-calibrating color-temperature measurement technology built into the screens. So does expensive CRT’s have as well!
Thanks for destroying your own argument :)
That still doesn’t change the fact that I’ve never seen a TFT that can display black.
> – TFT’s are NOT blurry, unless we’re talking about the cheapo 200 dollar 19 inchers you buy from taekwondoland-copyware-kong-hung with the “all-in-one 800×600 to 1920-1600 multi-synch-chip converter to DVI crap” built in with bipolar interpolation.. hehe..guess I lost a few out there now.
You consider $200 “cheapo”? Sorry, but for $200 I can get a *really* decent 19″ CRT…
And you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. We are talking about a *physical* limitation of TFT design here: They are designed for a *fixed* resolution, so they need to do *interpolated scaling* for *any other* than their native resolution, which results in *blurryness*. Understand?
> – TFT are flat and nice…and thus give even-FOCUS all over the screen, pixels are supersharp and you can notice even the smallest compression error in an image – try that with a “naturally-antialiased-by-analogue-cathode-rays” ligth intensity tubes…(CRT’s) Sure…it makes your pictures look nicer than they actually are..
Totally stupid argument. Did you ever look at – say – a Trinitron tube with a wire mask (or whatever they’re called in english) (which is *still* not closely as expensive as a TFT)? It HAS super-sharp pixels, they are EXACT RECTANGLES without the SLIGHTEST convergence problems.
> – TFT saves you money! Imagine your 300-600 watt power-sucking picture tube CRT sucking away your money, ok…thats perhaps not a problem if your PARENTS are paying for it, but thats a lot of money each year…we’re talking hundreds of dollars (if you’re not
I’d say 30 Watts for a TFT (which is more realistic), and 200 watts (which is more realistic) for a CRT.
The difference in power bill will be roughly 100 EUR / year with 10 hours of operation per day, so I agree on this one.
> – TFT saves your vision. Did you know that you’re actually staring into gamma rays when you’re enjoying your 80′tech CRT screen with “all natural analogue colors”? ;)
Well, my CRT is not 80’tech, it’s TCO 2001 (or was it 2002) and thus doesn’t have a fraction of the ROENTGEN (I’ve never heard of a CRT causing gamma radiation, as you suggest) radiation of your 80s tech CRT. Maybe you should once try a more recent one, that doesn’t have 600 watts of power consumption and GAMMA rays (heck!)
Further, you did read about the extremely strong RFI that my TFT causes? Well, maybe that’s far worse for your health than the “gamma” rays of a CRT.
Of course, as soon as someone shows me an 21″ TFT which can display pure black, has a reaction time of 2 ms, doesn’t radiate strong enough to make my studio unusable (yes, i should use symmetric cables!), and doesn’t have pixel errors, maybe I will switch :)
I agree with Rubbleman however, this article (17/11/05) is also interesting, just some people have forgotten the fact where are not in a forum.
keep it up Men and eat oranges, there’s a lot of vitamins!
regards
Awesome work orange team. Thanks for extending the limits on my favorite application. I appreciate that you’re open to constructive criticism and learning from others AND you’re focused. It is certain you will push the limits in entertainment value as well.
Regarding monitors- this is starting prodution: a flat panel, with a CRT at every pixel.
http://www.canon.com/technology/display/ Canon Technology -SED-
Alexander Ewering wrote:
“Totally stupid argument. Did you ever look at – say – a Trinitron tube with a wire mask (or whatever they’re called in english) (which is *still* not closely as expensive as a TFT)? It HAS super-sharp pixels, they are EXACT RECTANGLES without the SLIGHTEST convergence problems.”
Oh dear… I wanted to write another long reply to you
since you brought up some interesting arguments, but I somehow decided that would not lead to “anywhere”.
I won’t even go there now…not even touch it. Enjoy “yourself” and your awesome knowledge.
good,ok…so your uncle rubbleman doesn’t want to tell people what they should and shouldn’t say here however this blog is not the place to have a spat about display technologies so i hope this comes to an end now.
There is plenty to share about Blender and Project Orange.
We can all have a bit of fun with some jokes, make comments, compliments and constructive criticism, ask questions etc. and everyone has a good time…
why is ton yelling
much violence i see there at project orange
i think everyone should be quiet now…..and get back to work
before ton gets angry
rubbleman: I love people with attitudes and with the desire to express them. Makes life more fun and interesting :) But that’s just me…
Well, considering we just showed a bunch of photos and we’re not telling anyone to do or buy anything, it would be nice if those particular attitudes were expressed somewhere more on topic ;)
hi matt,
this isn’t precisely on topic, but i was wondering if someone from the orange team could write a quick note to explain how the eye movement via driven shapes was created in the example character .blend?
i tried to reverse engineer it myself by creating four shapes (LookUpRight, LookDownRight, LookUpLeft, LookDownLeft) and creating a 4 mix controller using guitargeek’s script.
problem is, the eyeballs squash while moving between the key shapes.
how did you guys solve this?
TroutMaskReplica: the eyemovement is driven by the controller, but it isn’t shapes: the actual armature bones for the eye are driven in this case. The same goes for the jaw movement, and for the eyelid opening and closing.
shapes don’t interpolate rotations (I don’t know if I’m describing this technically correctly) but translations of vertices from one shape to another; this is why the eyeball would squash if you try to rotate it with shapes (you could solve this by using many many inbetween shapes for the rotation, but it is much nicer to use bones :)
To TroutMaskReplica and everyone else.
I’m posting my reverse engineering results relative to the eyes.
Please ignore all that doesn´t make sence ;-)
For the eyes you can see lots of bones, 4 in each eye to be precise. There’s 2 for the deformation of the top and bottom eyelid, useful for opening and closing the eyelids; one for the eyes rotations, named (eye) and another for the deformation of the eyelids relative to the eye movement, named (eyebase).
Now, all these bones have Driven channels, easily viewable, selecting the bone in 3d view (in pose mode, un-hiding them first) and in the ipo curve editor selecting the ipo type: pose.
I have also noted that the right eye bones are constrained to the left eye bones, coping their rotation and eyelids movement… witch is excellent. Now I’m wondering: How much time the creator of this rigging spent to total complete it? All the others characters have this amount of bone detail? I’ve seen lots of rig systems, the Maya ones, the SoftImage defaults, 3d studio max, but this one is like the ultimate one. Could I be alone in the universe, does anyone else chare my opinion?
Ohh!! Another detail that I liked to saw implemented was the bones that simulate tendons using constraints, very nice, its a really NOS discharge of realism. Now that you hade it you guys could put also some bones for muscles. Of course, that’s relevant if the character appears at least in one scene naked, otherwise it’s a bit a waste of time, isn’t it. But the Orange project isn’t just a movie is also to learn, giving us wonderful new tools and ways to work our limitations around ;-)
More, for the moment, I don’t know, but I bet that they’re cooking a wonderful book full off precious words and illustrations with all the occult secrets of the rigging art and all the other cool blender features.
Sorry the statement.
“The things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them”
Aristottle
Can we know the reason on why Ton is angry in that photo? :-)
thanks bassam and rogper for your explanations.
believe it or not, i had considered the possibility that bones were used, but since i didn’t see them in the rig (there seems to be two places to hide bones now, edit mode AND pose mode) that’s what threw me off.
anyway, thanks again. now i’m going to fire up blender and fix my rig.
Ton looks like he is being an expression ‘model’ for the first photo, and the second he just looks tired. I don’t think he is angry in those photos.
LetterRip
No, no, the first is Ton’s “What? Why?” face. As in,.. what? that’s not a bug, that’s a feature! Why would I change that?
The window thing is then fixing the bug.
i think ton is saying, you dont like it here in Amsterdam,
then go the f— home you looser, now get back to work before i throw you out the freaking window.
then in the next photo we get to see bassam crying, hurt by tons words, are you boys longing to go home, far away from this evil master.
any chance we will see some “payper view” ultimate fighting from the members of orange. cage match between ton and basse, the looser gets his heart eaten out by lee. and andy can use his super sideburn move, where he rips off his side burns and throws them like a boomerang.
what’s a looser? ;)
Joeri: spot on =) well, you know him better then us even hehe
Bassam! I found you! Haven’t you realized that your dumb slikdigit account is gone the way of the narwhale?? As comforting as it is to see your photo posted from thousands of miles away, I’d still rather know how to reach you directly. So email me!
!Heather!
[email protected]
P.s. when are you coming home? and are they feeding you properly over there? happy thanksgiving…:))
Bassam is very busy doing boy stuff and is not allowed outside for several months…
(the rubbleman is thinking his be nice to each other message is having more success than he anticipated…) ;o)
hello heather,
it seems bassam is busy right now.
but i would be glad to help you out.
we can go to “red lobster” and talk
about your love of narwhales.
but you will have to pay, money is
pretty tight right now.